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    Troll Science - Body Mechanics

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    Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  AdminGoat on Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:49 am

    ...coz nothing beats a cigarette after a 20km run while soaking sweat with a chopped head under yer armpit.



    I want Shan to tell us about Systema and why in the worldcup he insists its any good.







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    Re: Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  AdminGoat on Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:39 am

    and one of the funniest vids i've ever seen!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66k6_TJrLnA&feature=related


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    Re: Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  kryptonyte on Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:45 am

    ehehehe... she kicks things...

    and because it seems practical. You're not going to be in a stance every time you fight and most martial arts don't prepare you for hand on weapon defensive combat. It seems refined to real life situations in contrast to other arts which are made more for in the ring, one on one, premeditated fights; excluding aikido and some forms of tai chi, which just have a different take on philosophy.

    I'm not saying it's better or worse than any art, just used for a different situation. Put a systema practitioner to some of the more devout Chinese monks and he'll get his ass handed to him. One on one even a jui jitsu practitioner might be even able to best one of systema that is, if he could get him to the ground.

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    Re: Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  AdminGoat on Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:14 am

    easy way to lure and beat systema teachers:

    "I HAVE COOKIES! OMNOMNOM?"

    pffhahaha
    its the most terrible thing i've ever seen.
    plus, these guys dont spar so ya have absolutely no clue if they can fight at all, except all that delivering blows to the diaphragm (which aint gonna be handed to them so easily in a real fight).


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    Re: Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  kryptonyte on Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:20 pm

    There's no need to ever insult any martial art, it's just disrespectful; you would think that practicing one would have taught you that. These things are not only built upon the idea of defending oneself but also to teach a unique philosophy.

    For example, I could say Aikido is the stupidest and least effective martial art ever because it focuses from a philosophical stand point to talk down opponents and exert small amounts of force, but those parts of it make it unique and quite frankly it's not crap, the philosophy holds truth and is useful so long as you can conceptualize it. If two people are forced to go at it in a ring, one being a practitioner of Aikido and the other being of any martial art that includes grappling, then the Aikido guy will most likely lose every time, but this is not a real fight. This is an artificial fight where the person's motives have no actual bearing. Now if a few people got into a drunken fight at a bar, the Aikido guy might come out unscratched while the grappler will probably have glass sticking out of his skin. Philosophy is important for real situations and real fights by my definition.

    Furthermore a lot of martial arts have pudgy masters, people eventually get old, that really has no bearing on the effectiveness of it if you or I learned it. If you're telling me you can take any master that is overweight, simply because he's out of shape, you're delusional.

    And finally. systema is not for sparing, its for "somebody just came at me with a knife or firearm, what do I do?" or "I'm just sitting/standing here minding my own business but this assholes trying to attack me." or "I'm getting ganged up on ten people, how do i get out of this before they all jump and beat the shit out of me?" It's practical and useful for our current real life situations.
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    Re: Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  AdminGoat on Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:30 pm

    kryptonyte wrote:There's no need to ever insult any martial art, it's just disrespectful; you would think that practicing one would have taught you that. These things are not only built upon the idea of defending oneself but also to teach a unique philosophy.

    For example, I could say Aikido is the stupidest and least effective martial art ever because it focuses from a philosophical stand point to talk down opponents and exert small amounts of force, but those parts of it make it unique and quite frankly it's not crap, the philosophy holds truth and is useful so long as you can conceptualize it. If two people are forced to go at it in a ring, one being a practitioner of Aikido and the other being of any martial art that includes grappling, then the Aikido guy will most likely lose every time, but this is not a real fight. This is an artificial fight where the person's motives have no actual bearing. Now if a few people got into a drunken fight at a bar, the Aikido guy might come out unscratched while the grappler will probably have glass sticking out of his skin. Philosophy is important for real situations and real fights by my definition.

    Furthermore a lot of martial arts have pudgy masters, people eventually get old, that really has no bearing on the effectiveness of it if you or I learned it. If you're telling me you can take any master that is overweight, simply because he's out of shape, you're delusional.

    And finally. systema is not for sparing, its for "somebody just came at me with a knife or firearm, what do I do?" or "I'm just sitting/standing here minding my own business but this assholes trying to attack me." or "I'm getting ganged up on ten people, how do i get out of this before they all jump and beat the shit out of me?" It's practical and useful for our current real life situations.

    wut.

    HAHAHAHAHAHA.
    if ye wanna learn defense against knives and guns, engage with filippino martial arts.
    and its not discrimination or insulting the art, coz i dont even consider systema to be a martial art, more of a military orthodox cult-sorta thing.
    As for the philosophy, what kinda philosophy are ye talkin'about?
    coz many ppl get lost in all the mumbojumbo stuff and miss the main point: they just like ta brawl and thats all there is to it, ye just learn many different ways/techniques/styles ta do it.

    I seriously dislike fatasses who call themselves masters.
    If it aint sumo, THEN WHY THE FFFFUUU ARE YE LIKE A WHALE?
    Dont make sense to me, its plain conformism and opposes basic principles of martial arts. So yeah, no prob, ye think a fat guy can have as good cardio as us? no way, so if ye wont try to bearhug him and actually attack, draw back fast, keep yer distance and be in constant movement, systema master is gonna have a hard time. they can always spar using protective equip. so that they wont "die" from the fatal blow to the chest or the head. And if ye manage ta close the "gap", what sorta grappling will the systema dude do?
    Also, average bjj vs average aikido, bjj wins.

    its a freakin joke, seriously.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkWSA18d-zE&feature=related


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    Re: Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  AdminGoat on Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:41 pm



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    Re: Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  kryptonyte on Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:17 pm

    I'm sure if you said brawling was the point to the creator of whatever martial art you're practicing, he'd smack you upside the head. The "art" is there for a reason. Secondly I've seen overweight Buddhist monks do things that defy reason, there's stuff that we just don't understand yet.

    Again you're missing the point, fighting like you're saying isn't real, I've never just walked out and seen two highly trained martial artists fighting. It doesn't happen unless simulated, that's what UFC is for. If you call that real fighting, fine, but it generally doesn't happen in real life like that. And I just said BJJ would win in one of these simulated fights over Aikido, but in reality people are conflicted and an aikido guy will probably not get shit kicked as much as the BJJ guy in life.

    And in regards to the video's, the third guy is the student of the second. I've met the third guy, he lives and teaches a city over from me now. What he's doing in the third video looks like bullshit and it probably is, meaning its probably for a demonstration and without context it doesn't make sense. Taking two minutes of an entire video cannot demonstrate something completely. I cannot take a two minute clip from your favorite movie and expect it to tell me everything about the film. I got punched by the third guy like the guy in the second video did. I went down like that. It looks like it's not real, but it is, and it hurts like a bitch.

    I still don't understand why you have such a low opinion. Have you met and fought a practitioner or something?
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    Re: Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  AdminGoat on Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:09 pm

    kryptonyte wrote:I'm sure if you said brawling was the point to the creator of whatever martial art you're practicing, he'd smack you upside the head. The "art" is there for a reason. Secondly I've seen overweight Buddhist monks do things that defy reason, there's stuff that we just don't understand yet.

    Again you're missing the point, fighting like you're saying isn't real, I've never just walked out and seen two highly trained martial artists fighting. It doesn't happen unless simulated, that's what UFC is for. If you call that real fighting, fine, but it generally doesn't happen in real life like that. And I just said BJJ would win in one of these simulated fights over Aikido, but in reality people are conflicted and an aikido guy will probably not get shit kicked as much as the BJJ guy in life.

    And in regards to the video's, the third guy is the student of the second. I've met the third guy, he lives and teaches a city over from me now. What he's doing in the third video looks like bullshit and it probably is, meaning its probably for a demonstration and without context it doesn't make sense. Taking two minutes of an entire video cannot demonstrate something completely. I cannot take a two minute clip from your favorite movie and expect it to tell me everything about the film. I got punched by the third guy like the guy in the second video did. I went down like that. It looks like it's not real, but it is, and it hurts like a bitch.

    I still don't understand why you have such a low opinion. Have you met and fought a practitioner or something?

    why? its true, all ppl who practice m.a. just like ta get a bit dirty once in a while, get their endorphin dose, make connections, feel like they belong somewhere. Defending yerself is such an abstract matter to discuss, ye might be strong, fast, good at what it is ye do with a good perception, and still get a backstab or a bullet or a beating.
    There is no art in a fight, while ye train ye respect yer opponent so that you wont damage him.
    In a real fight, ye just apply yer instincts and all the tools yer body has automated from the trainings.
    Ye might even get scared and run away like a chickenshit.
    Was it coz ye didnt meditate enuff?
    Or yer system's philosophy did not explain the fear section well enuff?
    Can ya say that the martial art is bad or that the fighter is bad?
    Then again, the fighters are the ones making the martial art what it is, and so far all the systema i've seen does not convince me.

    I dont accept the "we just dont understand stuff yet" theory.
    Its very convenient to say i dunno how he does it, its a miracle, show me wth he does so we can talk properly. There are no superheroes.
    And buddism defies reason on its own, whats yer point?

    I kno lotsa guys who do/did aikido, they all say the same thing, its non-applicable in the streets. Even ninjutsu would work better.
    UFC related, exactly what would ye call a simulation?
    There's a minimum of rules and they wear nothing to protect themselves except the gloves and the teeth thingie-wazzit called.
    Sparing exists so that ye can escape from the romantic idea of the "art" and begin to understand what a no-rules situation would be like.
    Systems that are based on striking pressure points and emphasizing on manipulating/using the opponent's force/weight etc, are the ones that should have been promoting sparing more than the rest, coz for example a judoka cant fake a throw, but a boxer can fake a punch.

    Why do ya let ppl punch ya?
    ye some sort of crazy person?



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    Re: Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  kryptonyte on Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:42 am

    AdminGoat wrote:
    kryptonyte wrote:I'm sure if you said brawling was the point to the creator of whatever martial art you're practicing, he'd smack you upside the head. The "art" is there for a reason. Secondly I've seen overweight Buddhist monks do things that defy reason, there's stuff that we just don't understand yet.

    Again you're missing the point, fighting like you're saying isn't real, I've never just walked out and seen two highly trained martial artists fighting. It doesn't happen unless simulated, that's what UFC is for. If you call that real fighting, fine, but it generally doesn't happen in real life like that. And I just said BJJ would win in one of these simulated fights over Aikido, but in reality people are conflicted and an aikido guy will probably not get shit kicked as much as the BJJ guy in life.

    And in regards to the video's, the third guy is the student of the second. I've met the third guy, he lives and teaches a city over from me now. What he's doing in the third video looks like bullshit and it probably is, meaning its probably for a demonstration and without context it doesn't make sense. Taking two minutes of an entire video cannot demonstrate something completely. I cannot take a two minute clip from your favorite movie and expect it to tell me everything about the film. I got punched by the third guy like the guy in the second video did. I went down like that. It looks like it's not real, but it is, and it hurts like a bitch.

    I still don't understand why you have such a low opinion. Have you met and fought a practitioner or something?

    why? its true, all ppl who practice m.a. just like ta get a bit dirty once in a while, get their endorphin dose, make connections, feel like they belong somewhere. Defending yerself is such an abstract matter to discuss, ye might be strong, fast, good at what it is ye do with a good perception, and still get a backstab or a bullet or a beating.
    There is no art in a fight, while ye train ye respect yer opponent so that you wont damage him.
    In a real fight, ye just apply yer instincts and all the tools yer body has automated from the trainings.
    Ye might even get scared and run away like a chickenshit.
    Was it coz ye didnt meditate enuff?
    Or yer system's philosophy did not explain the fear section well enuff?
    Can ya say that the martial art is bad or that the fighter is bad?
    Then again, the fighters are the ones making the martial art what it is, and so far all the systema i've seen does not convince me.

    I dont accept the "we just dont understand stuff yet" theory.
    Its very convenient to say i dunno how he does it, its a miracle, show me wth he does so we can talk properly. There are no superheroes.
    And buddism defies reason on its own, whats yer point?

    I kno lotsa guys who do/did aikido, they all say the same thing, its non-applicable in the streets. Even ninjutsu would work better.
    UFC related, exactly what would ye call a simulation?
    There's a minimum of rules and they wear nothing to protect themselves except the gloves and the teeth thingie-wazzit called.
    Sparing exists so that ye can escape from the romantic idea of the "art" and begin to understand what a no-rules situation would be like.
    Systems that are based on striking pressure points and emphasizing on manipulating/using the opponent's force/weight etc, are the ones that should have been promoting sparing more than the rest, coz for example a judoka cant fake a throw, but a boxer can fake a punch.

    Why do ya let ppl punch ya?
    ye some sort of crazy person?


    I wanted to see if it was legit, it was.

    A real fight is not just a fight of the body, but a fight of the mind as well. People are conflicted and with suggestion they might back down. I once talked a guy into putting away a gun, would it really have been better if I charged him and tried to take the gun by force? No. Theres never a situation where the mind doesn't play a factor other than a simulation, UFC is such a simulation. Fighting for the sake of fighting or because you're paid to doesn't happen in real life, this is why philosophy in martial art is prominent. An art can be practical or impractical in a fight yes, but thats not all they're for. They are for discipline, philosophy, etc, etc. A person would never need to do all the acrobatic shit that shaolin monks do, but that doesn't make it stupid or useless. Those guy's train their bodies to do things that defy reason.

    this is of course flawed due to being from national geographic and actually calling what they're doing "Kung Fu" (-_-) but it gives an idea.



    That is a lifetime of dedication to a lot of things that wouldn't even be useful in a fight. They're not doing it to be badass, they're doing it for the philosophy and discipline and as a testament to how devout they are. Martial arts are art.

    Even ballet in some cases can be considered martial art, a lot of boxers and other martial artists use it to get light on their feet.
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    Re: Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  AdminGoat on Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:52 pm

    i've seen this video its ancient.
    i dont see anything that defies reason in it
    and why do ye separate the mind from the body?

    wether chi exists or not its still an organic matter, it has nothing to do with magic or ghosts. you can start banging yer head on the wall 1 hr every day, eventually ye shall find a rythm to breathing and where to concentrate yer force and how to deal with pain. this is how all ironing skills work (but not for cloths).

    the difference between a shaolin monk and a guy who practices systema, is that the monk actually sweats and might even cry at night coz he broke a limb, the systema guy will throw his shades at ya and expect ya to die.

    i aint tryin ta troll systema or anything, its self-trolled anyway.
    and i surely never said that gymnastics are useless in any manner. the total opposite actually, which proved itself when freeforall fights like k1 appeared. mma fighters are summin up all the useful stuff and try ta use it in the cages/rings, if systema could work the way they demonstrate it, we'd be seeing it applied and there'd be no bitching.



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    Re: Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  kryptonyte on Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:43 pm

    AdminGoat wrote:i've seen this video its ancient.
    i dont see anything that defies reason in it
    and why do ye separate the mind from the body?

    wether chi exists or not its still an organic matter, it has nothing to do with magic or ghosts. you can start banging yer head on the wall 1 hr every day, eventually ye shall find a rythm to breathing and where to concentrate yer force and how to deal with pain. this is how all ironing skills work (but not for cloths).

    the difference between a shaolin monk and a guy who practices systema, is that the monk actually sweats and might even cry at night coz he broke a limb, the systema guy will throw his shades at ya and expect ya to die.

    i aint tryin ta troll systema or anything, its self-trolled anyway.
    and i surely never said that gymnastics are useless in any manner. the total opposite actually, which proved itself when freeforall fights like k1 appeared. mma fighters are summin up all the useful stuff and try ta use it in the cages/rings, if systema could work the way they demonstrate it, we'd be seeing it applied and there'd be no bitching.


    Before you put the mind and body together, you have to understand the parts. There's always a balance yeah? Put too much hot sauce in my soup and only an idiot would eat it XD

    There is actually a lot of working out in systema, thought it'd be up your alley. Lots of running, weights, team based stuff. Just a few of the older masters are fat, and those dudes are like 60.

    How have gymnastics been proven in mma? 0_o. The most gymnastic thing I've seen there is a flying knee and even that is pretty damn rare. They're pretty useless in practical fights, but it's certainly difficult to get your body to do stuff like that.

    If weapons were allowed in k1, ufc, pride, ect, you might have seen systema, but then the whole deal is a little more lethal and thats probably not good. If a dude has a knife or a gun, I'm not gonna try to take him to the ground, I'm either gonna have a knife fight with him or try to disarm him.
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    Re: Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  AdminGoat on Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:33 am

    kryptonyte wrote:
    AdminGoat wrote:i've seen this video its ancient.
    i dont see anything that defies reason in it
    and why do ye separate the mind from the body?

    wether chi exists or not its still an organic matter, it has nothing to do with magic or ghosts. you can start banging yer head on the wall 1 hr every day, eventually ye shall find a rythm to breathing and where to concentrate yer force and how to deal with pain. this is how all ironing skills work (but not for cloths).

    the difference between a shaolin monk and a guy who practices systema, is that the monk actually sweats and might even cry at night coz he broke a limb, the systema guy will throw his shades at ya and expect ya to die.

    i aint tryin ta troll systema or anything, its self-trolled anyway.
    and i surely never said that gymnastics are useless in any manner. the total opposite actually, which proved itself when freeforall fights like k1 appeared. mma fighters are summin up all the useful stuff and try ta use it in the cages/rings, if systema could work the way they demonstrate it, we'd be seeing it applied and there'd be no bitching.


    Before you put the mind and body together, you have to understand the parts. There's always a balance yeah? Put too much hot sauce in my soup and only an idiot would eat it XD

    There is actually a lot of working out in systema, thought it'd be up your alley. Lots of running, weights, team based stuff. Just a few of the older masters are fat, and those dudes are like 60.

    How have gymnastics been proven in mma? 0_o. The most gymnastic thing I've seen there is a flying knee and even that is pretty damn rare. They're pretty useless in practical fights, but it's certainly difficult to get your body to do stuff like that.

    If weapons were allowed in k1, ufc, pride, ect, you might have seen systema, but then the whole deal is a little more lethal and thats probably not good. If a dude has a knife or a gun, I'm not gonna try to take him to the ground, I'm either gonna have a knife fight with him or try to disarm him.

    lethal huh
    mhae, okay. I aint gonna discuss why mma ppl are superior to systema practitioners, there are vids on utub showin what kinda training mma fighters do, so i dont wanna feel like i bully ya.
    as for guns and knives and stuff,
    how about this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTKqYkvmdkU


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    Re: Troll Science - Body Mechanics

    Post  AdminGoat on Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:05 am

    and now for something different, powerful kungfu!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF88bWrppMc


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