Retards Unite Again!
kryptonyte wrote:There's no need to ever insult any martial art, it's just disrespectful; you would think that practicing one would have taught you that. These things are not only built upon the idea of defending oneself but also to teach a unique philosophy.
For example, I could say Aikido is the stupidest and least effective martial art ever because it focuses from a philosophical stand point to talk down opponents and exert small amounts of force, but those parts of it make it unique and quite frankly it's not crap, the philosophy holds truth and is useful so long as you can conceptualize it. If two people are forced to go at it in a ring, one being a practitioner of Aikido and the other being of any martial art that includes grappling, then the Aikido guy will most likely lose every time, but this is not a real fight. This is an artificial fight where the person's motives have no actual bearing. Now if a few people got into a drunken fight at a bar, the Aikido guy might come out unscratched while the grappler will probably have glass sticking out of his skin. Philosophy is important for real situations and real fights by my definition.
Furthermore a lot of martial arts have pudgy masters, people eventually get old, that really has no bearing on the effectiveness of it if you or I learned it. If you're telling me you can take any master that is overweight, simply because he's out of shape, you're delusional.
And finally. systema is not for sparing, its for "somebody just came at me with a knife or firearm, what do I do?" or "I'm just sitting/standing here minding my own business but this assholes trying to attack me." or "I'm getting ganged up on ten people, how do i get out of this before they all jump and beat the shit out of me?" It's practical and useful for our current real life situations.
kryptonyte wrote:I'm sure if you said brawling was the point to the creator of whatever martial art you're practicing, he'd smack you upside the head. The "art" is there for a reason. Secondly I've seen overweight Buddhist monks do things that defy reason, there's stuff that we just don't understand yet.
Again you're missing the point, fighting like you're saying isn't real, I've never just walked out and seen two highly trained martial artists fighting. It doesn't happen unless simulated, that's what UFC is for. If you call that real fighting, fine, but it generally doesn't happen in real life like that. And I just said BJJ would win in one of these simulated fights over Aikido, but in reality people are conflicted and an aikido guy will probably not get shit kicked as much as the BJJ guy in life.
And in regards to the video's, the third guy is the student of the second. I've met the third guy, he lives and teaches a city over from me now. What he's doing in the third video looks like bullshit and it probably is, meaning its probably for a demonstration and without context it doesn't make sense. Taking two minutes of an entire video cannot demonstrate something completely. I cannot take a two minute clip from your favorite movie and expect it to tell me everything about the film. I got punched by the third guy like the guy in the second video did. I went down like that. It looks like it's not real, but it is, and it hurts like a bitch.
I still don't understand why you have such a low opinion. Have you met and fought a practitioner or something?
AdminGoat wrote:kryptonyte wrote:I'm sure if you said brawling was the point to the creator of whatever martial art you're practicing, he'd smack you upside the head. The "art" is there for a reason. Secondly I've seen overweight Buddhist monks do things that defy reason, there's stuff that we just don't understand yet.
Again you're missing the point, fighting like you're saying isn't real, I've never just walked out and seen two highly trained martial artists fighting. It doesn't happen unless simulated, that's what UFC is for. If you call that real fighting, fine, but it generally doesn't happen in real life like that. And I just said BJJ would win in one of these simulated fights over Aikido, but in reality people are conflicted and an aikido guy will probably not get shit kicked as much as the BJJ guy in life.
And in regards to the video's, the third guy is the student of the second. I've met the third guy, he lives and teaches a city over from me now. What he's doing in the third video looks like bullshit and it probably is, meaning its probably for a demonstration and without context it doesn't make sense. Taking two minutes of an entire video cannot demonstrate something completely. I cannot take a two minute clip from your favorite movie and expect it to tell me everything about the film. I got punched by the third guy like the guy in the second video did. I went down like that. It looks like it's not real, but it is, and it hurts like a bitch.
I still don't understand why you have such a low opinion. Have you met and fought a practitioner or something?
why? its true, all ppl who practice m.a. just like ta get a bit dirty once in a while, get their endorphin dose, make connections, feel like they belong somewhere. Defending yerself is such an abstract matter to discuss, ye might be strong, fast, good at what it is ye do with a good perception, and still get a backstab or a bullet or a beating.
There is no art in a fight, while ye train ye respect yer opponent so that you wont damage him.
In a real fight, ye just apply yer instincts and all the tools yer body has automated from the trainings.
Ye might even get scared and run away like a chickenshit.
Was it coz ye didnt meditate enuff?
Or yer system's philosophy did not explain the fear section well enuff?
Can ya say that the martial art is bad or that the fighter is bad?
Then again, the fighters are the ones making the martial art what it is, and so far all the systema i've seen does not convince me.
I dont accept the "we just dont understand stuff yet" theory.
Its very convenient to say i dunno how he does it, its a miracle, show me wth he does so we can talk properly. There are no superheroes.
And buddism defies reason on its own, whats yer point?
I kno lotsa guys who do/did aikido, they all say the same thing, its non-applicable in the streets. Even ninjutsu would work better.
UFC related, exactly what would ye call a simulation?
There's a minimum of rules and they wear nothing to protect themselves except the gloves and the teeth thingie-wazzit called.
Sparing exists so that ye can escape from the romantic idea of the "art" and begin to understand what a no-rules situation would be like.
Systems that are based on striking pressure points and emphasizing on manipulating/using the opponent's force/weight etc, are the ones that should have been promoting sparing more than the rest, coz for example a judoka cant fake a throw, but a boxer can fake a punch.
Why do ya let ppl punch ya?
ye some sort of crazy person?
AdminGoat wrote:i've seen this video its ancient.
i dont see anything that defies reason in it
and why do ye separate the mind from the body?
wether chi exists or not its still an organic matter, it has nothing to do with magic or ghosts. you can start banging yer head on the wall 1 hr every day, eventually ye shall find a rythm to breathing and where to concentrate yer force and how to deal with pain. this is how all ironing skills work (but not for cloths).
the difference between a shaolin monk and a guy who practices systema, is that the monk actually sweats and might even cry at night coz he broke a limb, the systema guy will throw his shades at ya and expect ya to die.
i aint tryin ta troll systema or anything, its self-trolled anyway.
and i surely never said that gymnastics are useless in any manner. the total opposite actually, which proved itself when freeforall fights like k1 appeared. mma fighters are summin up all the useful stuff and try ta use it in the cages/rings, if systema could work the way they demonstrate it, we'd be seeing it applied and there'd be no bitching.
kryptonyte wrote:AdminGoat wrote:i've seen this video its ancient.
i dont see anything that defies reason in it
and why do ye separate the mind from the body?
wether chi exists or not its still an organic matter, it has nothing to do with magic or ghosts. you can start banging yer head on the wall 1 hr every day, eventually ye shall find a rythm to breathing and where to concentrate yer force and how to deal with pain. this is how all ironing skills work (but not for cloths).
the difference between a shaolin monk and a guy who practices systema, is that the monk actually sweats and might even cry at night coz he broke a limb, the systema guy will throw his shades at ya and expect ya to die.
i aint tryin ta troll systema or anything, its self-trolled anyway.
and i surely never said that gymnastics are useless in any manner. the total opposite actually, which proved itself when freeforall fights like k1 appeared. mma fighters are summin up all the useful stuff and try ta use it in the cages/rings, if systema could work the way they demonstrate it, we'd be seeing it applied and there'd be no bitching.
Before you put the mind and body together, you have to understand the parts. There's always a balance yeah? Put too much hot sauce in my soup and only an idiot would eat it XD
There is actually a lot of working out in systema, thought it'd be up your alley. Lots of running, weights, team based stuff. Just a few of the older masters are fat, and those dudes are like 60.
How have gymnastics been proven in mma? 0_o. The most gymnastic thing I've seen there is a flying knee and even that is pretty damn rare. They're pretty useless in practical fights, but it's certainly difficult to get your body to do stuff like that.
If weapons were allowed in k1, ufc, pride, ect, you might have seen systema, but then the whole deal is a little more lethal and thats probably not good. If a dude has a knife or a gun, I'm not gonna try to take him to the ground, I'm either gonna have a knife fight with him or try to disarm him.
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AdminGoat Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:49 am